Hi,<div> </div><div>just a thought here. Did you consider crowdfunding via something like Kickstarter ? </div><div> </div><div>best,</div><div> </div><div>Kai Londenberg <div class="gmail_quote">2013/6/18 Ned Conner <<a href="mailto:npconner@earthlink.net" target="_blank">npconner@earthlink.net</a>> <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Ed and Mark -- Great Posts! Ed, I am right there with you in understanding that it is all about resources. Some of us have funds available to donate; some of us feel called to work on new governance systems, and do so to the extent that we are able (self-supported and/or donation supported). More resources would be a very good thing. As you say, the window of danger and opportunity is upon us. Setting up an American non-profit corporation and then funding it through grants and such is a common model, and can work. Worth a shot if there is evidence that it might. Beyond that, there are also other funding models that can work (as you probably know much better than I). Brainstorming with a range of potential donors might be useful. (Brainstorming with potential recipients of donations, or with middle-man agents of donors (foundations, etc.), would probably be less useful -- the donors are the drivers.) Because the work that we are doing (towards true democracy, etc.) is not really in the self-serving best interests of the Carnegies and Rockefellers and Mellons, or their agents, formality may not be our friend when it comes to finding funding. New paradigms become attractive (to independent donors, developers, and participants) when those working within the paradigm are having the most fun, and making the best progress. Mark, I very much agree that it would be a good idea for us to set up a new sovereign state sort of entity (not geographically defined -- global in reach), and have our new governance systems operate in that context. To me, "run parallel and render obsolete" seems a much better strategy than "try to compete directly within rotten and rigged systems". I confess that I didn't follow your references to the freemasons and such, but this particular thread may not be the appropriate place to have that discussion. You are the one in the best position to know how you can help. If you have proposals that you could make (with specificity and particularity), that would be great, and I and others could respond. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ On 6/17/2013 8:30 AM, Mark Giza wrote: <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"> Did you ever think composing it as a soveriegn state? Now a lot of soveriegners get looked down upon. I have been speaking very highly of this system. Actually I had the idea to do it years ago and was pleased to see your group had already done the footwork. Now realize the united states is diminishing collection of states and corporations. So basically its like trying to invest in amway. That time has passed. Its a ghost ship. Now to get approval from the freemasons. You need to seperate yourself but promote ideas they are trying to accomplish currently. Like the north american union. So basically establish your own state. Offer people a clean slate and new identity when they join. The united states wouldn't like that but if you play your cards right and support the new world order at this time they will look at it as a supporting state. I have put tons of time into this. I have lots of support from the anonymous organization. So when you establish your own state which is just a matter of paperwork and I would be honored to help with. I would consider helping 100% with your movement. United states is a dying dog. Nothing more. They are deliberatly destroying the economy to force the public into buying into the north american union. Which is fine with me. The us is on autopilot for desteuction. But if you establish yourself as a friendly state. Support the masonic views and lead on to helping them accomplish a common goal. I'm sure it won't be a problem using the Amero as the new currency to finance your project. I have about ten years of research of creating new states and international law. Let me know if your interested. Ttyl Namaste<div><div class="h5"> On Jun 17, 2013 7:45 AM, "Ed Pastore" <<a href="mailto:epastore@metagovernment.org" target="_blank">epastore@metagovernment.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:epastore@metagovernment.org" target="_blank">epastore@metagovernment.org</a>>> wrote: Hi, Ned. The idea I have been floating on the Votorola list is just that: an idea I'm mulling over. I brought it up prematurely because of the post Rhett had made there. But it is all about resources. Currently, the resources I have available for Metagov are tiny scraps of time I manage to eke out between the heavy demands of my job, my business, and caring for a sick family-member. I would prefer for Metagov to be my full-time job, but the only practical way for me to make that happen is to organize it as an American non-profit corporation. Then I could work up to spending significant amounts of time writing grant proposals to foundations in the hopes of building up a treasury which we could then use to fund publicity efforts as well as to fund coding projects (plus I could work on making back-end improvements such as expanding on the limitations of the list server). I've repeatedly floated the idea of creating a formal organization, but I've had a lot of trouble with the idea of making it an American company. It just seems wrong for our group to be tied to one country. Especially the United States, where relatively few of our members reside and where the tax laws are intrusive and burdensome. There's also a lot of legal work to be done to figure out if we can create a non-profit which is governed not by a board of directors but by collaborative governance. On the other hand, the U.S. is the place where a large bulk of the moneyed foundations reside; and generally they only fund American non-profits ("501c3's"). Rather than figuring out what to do with the scarce resources we have now, I would love the opportunity to grow them into a more formidable stash. I am open to ideas, suggestions, alternative thinking, etc. On Jun 16, 2013, at 7:40 PM, Ned Conner wrote: </div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5"> There is an active thread over on the Votorola listserv that is raising many important issues for discussion: </div></div> *A New Party Dedicated to Implementing Public Voting*.<div class="im"> The root links to the thread are: <a href="http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001748.html" target="_blank">http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001748.html</a> <a href="http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001753.html" target="_blank">http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001753.html</a> <a href="http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001749.html" target="_blank">http://mail.zelea.com/list/votorola/2013-June/001749.html</a> (and following) As often happens when we try to use listserv platforms for rational discourse, the thread started out as a specific invitation from Rhett Pepe to Michael Allen, and has since morphed into a wide-ranging informal conversation between Michael Allen and Ed Pastore. (As an aside, to effectively and efficiently support decision making through rational discourse, we need a system that features professional profiling and automatic multi-threading of each unit and sub-unit of the discourse, and that structurally, procedurally, reliably, transparently connects the discourse outcome to the decision outcome. Blinap alone among all extant decision system designs provides these features. The listserv platform has none of these features.) Below is a list dealing with one issue, extracted from the thread, of aims and values and objectives and strategies, with my addition appended. </div> * Rhett wants to start a new (mixed-format) political party<div class="im"> (and run for city council), as a means to infiltrate Representative Democracy with Direct Democracy. </div> * Ed wants freedom from representation. * Ed wants consensus-oriented direct democracy. * Ed is also (like Rhett) considering founding a mixed-format<div class="im"> party, as a stepping stone. </div> * Ned thinks that using our scarce resources to directly<div class="im"> compete against entrenched powers (that have vastly more resources) on their own turf (in our currently existing polyarchies) would be a monumental waste of our scarce resources. We can more quickly and efficiently create a more effective global "bully pulpit" if we do not engage in the utter waste of competing directly (creating political parties, running for office, buying advertising, funding political campaigns, etc.). _______________________________________________ Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project <a href="http://www.metagovernment.org/" target="_blank">http://www.metagovernment.org/</a> Post to the list: <a href="mailto:Start@metagovernment.org" target="_blank">Start@metagovernment.org</a> </div> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Start@metagovernment.org" target="_blank">Start@metagovernment.org</a>> Manage subscription: <a href="http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org" target="_blank">http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org</a> </blockquote><div class="im"> _______________________________________________ Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project <a href="http://www.metagovernment.org/" target="_blank">http://www.metagovernment.org/</a> Post to the list: <a href="mailto:Start@metagovernment.org" target="_blank">Start@metagovernment.org</a> </div> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Start@metagovernment.org" target="_blank">Start@metagovernment.org</a>><div class="im"> Manage subscription: <a href="http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org" target="_blank">http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org</a> _______________________________________________ Start : a mailing list of the Metagovernment project <a href="http://www.metagovernment.org/" target="_blank">http://www.metagovernment.org/</a> Post to the list: <a href="mailto:Start@metagovernment.org" target="_blank">Start@metagovernment.org</a> Manage subscription: <a href="http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org" target="_blank">http://metagovernment.org/mailman/listinfo/start_metagovernment.org</a> </div></blockquote><div class="HOEnZb"><div class="h5"> _______________________________________________ Votorola mailing list <a href="mailto:Votorola@zelea.com" target="_blank">Votorola@zelea.com</a> <a href="http://mail.zelea.com/mailman/listinfo/votorola" target="_blank">http://mail.zelea.com/mailman/listinfo/votorola</a> </div></div></blockquote></div> </div>